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NetBSD General Other questions regarding NetBSD which do not fit in any of the categories below. |
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Shame it's not the other way around
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Well now - if you don't like it, don't use it.
If you think it's dead, don't use it. No point in criticising a 'dead' project.
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Linux since 1999, & also a BSD user. |
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NetBSD is alive and kicking.
Cutting edge toolchain, new ports (riscv, oprk1k), new in development lm32. Resurrected playstation2. We had initial toolchain and platform stubs for aarch64 before FreeBSD. We had Raspberry Pi 2 support before FreeBSD.. etc. The system base is well covered and verified with automated tests. For NetBSD-7.0 the bugs in developed DRMKMS stuff are blockers. pkgsrc is quartely on time and 2014 was one of the most active years. OpenSolaris folks use pkgsrc and lately covered the Q4 branches with Long Term support. We have new developers, new candidates for developers, new users. But the OS still needs you, more hands and computers to test, develop, give feedback. Last edited by kamil; 29th March 2015 at 12:24 AM. |
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There is no date, it will be released when it will be ready and the following list will be emptied: http://releng.netbsd.org/pr-list.html Well I can see problems too, like keeping 250,000 USD reserves, not well invested next year it can be worth 100,000 USD or less. Much better to invest in 2 full-time devs and push DRMKMS forward as much as possible, because broken X acceleration can likely marginalize the system share on market. NetBSD shares the same issues with all BSD, Unix systems and some legacy Linux distros, shrinking user-base, aging devs and admins. To address the problems (not just applicable to NetBSD) I see the following things to be done:
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BTW Raspberry Pi is a joke! If you guys post that as a highlights I know that you are really in trouble. |
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People have different set of interests, I'm personally not interested in softraid 6, zfs or npf. I'm satisfied with Lua in kernel, dynamic modules, Linux compat, X, DRMKMS, USB, NIC, cross-compilability, reusability and more. Talking this way we won't have the same language. Why trouble? Actually a lot of new people come just to run NetBSD on their RPi or Allwinner boards. I assume that you are not interested in low-cost embedded. A lot of people is. Last edited by kamil; 29th March 2015 at 06:38 PM. |
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Considering that NetBSD somewhat supports the playstation 2, the Rpi probably deserves some support mention. There are a large amount of people playing around with the Rpi and NetBSD exposure from experimentation on their boards may draw some attention. The Rpi has some real drawbacks against other SoCs. But, it is real cheap. In varying countries with different financial structures, a 25 to 35 dollar computer might mean the difference between having one and not. These folks aren't going to be serving up data centers, but it does provide a chance to create a local mesh network with a smaller investment. Someone like that might not care about binary blobs, even if they should. I should add that the Odriod-c1 is comparative in cost and spec to the Rpi. Its only draw back it having no composite video or analog audio outputs (it seems). For most this wouldn't even matter, but if you don't have an hdmi a/v output device you might be out of luck. Again, this affects those with lower incomes. |
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That is a seriously cool board. I haven't found a list of Bitrig supported SoCs yet, (looks like Patrick is working on rpi2 support?), but I'd be interested to see if that SoC is supported by OpenBSD in the future.
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Linux/Network-Security Engineer by Profession. OpenBSD user by choice. |
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But I don't use NetBSD. Why would I do that? I am just pointing out that if I had quickly to make a sale pitch to my management why we need to use NetBSD 7.0 in our shop I would have very hard time point out 5-10 cool things even that you guys actually have them. Seriously, running BSDs is in part my livelihood and even I am having very hard time navigating what you guys bring to table comparing to other BSDs.
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Last edited by Oko; 30th March 2015 at 05:14 AM. |
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I appreciate the banter, and it's nice that NetBSD runs on everything under the sun, but I have yet to run across a situation where I had no choice but to run NetBSD. I suppose I don't have varied enough hardware to warrant running NetBSD enough to overcome the lack of security features found in OpenBSD.
But that board does look nice =)
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Linux/Network-Security Engineer by Profession. OpenBSD user by choice. |
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Everything depends on use-case, for servers we have the longest support, including binary backward compatibility to BSD4.4 or so, security and bugfix updates, decent server software in pkgsrc -- see what is doing the Solaris team with pkgsrc, they provide commercial support for it with LTS.
NetBSD shares networking capabilities of other BSD systems (well there are always narrow cases). Personally I wouldn't install a system on a server with less than 5 years of support. Yearly upgrades are no go. People still have NetBSD-4 and -5 on their servers. The 5.x release is still supported. For virtualization NetBSD/Dom0 works and the wiki was lately updated. I see no problem with NetBSD on a decent server. |
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Please see an example advisory (the latest one noted): http://ftp.netbsd.org/pub/NetBSD/sec...15-003.txt.asc Please don't change this topic to 'my system is better than yours' or 'your system is wrecked', for me and many users this is just a great piece of code reusable and retargettable it fits our needs. There are serious problems to focus on, like driver-base deficiencies or the current state of DRMKMS - this is for me top priority. My first code for NetBSD was contributed when I needed to use a new piece of software on CentOS-6... pkgsrc came with 'it just works' solution. Today that particular package is used on many platforms including NetBSD. PS. Do you know that some Linux vendors sale support for 20 years? Or VAX/VMS solutions are still supported? Community and volunteer driven long term support in NetBSD is good piece of work. PPS. If I would seriously care about security, I would pick-up the sel4 kernel and laugh at every other solution. Of course NetBSD code could be added to it the same way how it was added to Minix. Today Minix runs with NetBSD drivers and code-base. Last edited by kamil; 29th March 2015 at 09:52 PM. |
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As for sel4, of course you can mathematically prove a kernel where everything is in user-space. It even admits so much in the supported devices section of the FAQ: https://sel4.systems/FAQ/#devices "seL4, like any real microkernel, runs all device drivers in user mode, device support is therefore not the kernel's problem. <snip> Other than that, device support is the user's problem."
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Linux/Network-Security Engineer by Profession. OpenBSD user by choice. Last edited by rocket357; 30th March 2015 at 02:02 AM. |
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Well, to sum it up and not to derail the discussion, we are alive.
Best regards and thank you for your care. |
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And finally more bad news on March 4th for still alive NetBSD Quote:
Last edited by Oko; 30th March 2015 at 05:01 AM. |
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