Steal this Wi-Fi!

[stukov]

Anyone else willing to provide free Internet access to everyone?

http://www.wired.com/politics/security/commentary/securitymatters/2008/01/securitymatters_0110

[anomie]

I can't say I agree with the guy at all.

I'm a believer in the layered approach to security. WPA2-PSK is certainly not perfect, but it's another layer.
If I opened up my wireless network, I am not sure I would have much bandwidth left to use myself. (I live in a somewhat densely populated area in a tech-friendly city.)

[jggimi]

Bruce and I have had conversations about this very subject in years past.

I too, have a network unprotected by WEP or WPA. But unlike Bruce, my home network is protected by AuthPF and SSH. :)

[roddierod]

Well considering all this talk about Verizon and others starting to limit the amount of data you can download, I don't think this is going to catch on.

I encrypt mine because I don't like the idea of troublesome neighbors using my stuff.

[TerryP]

Waaaaaaiiiiitttt, are we talking about the same Bruce Schneier as in Cryptography !?

I think the open network idea as a 'politeness' thing and such is admirable but, "it's his network" to open ^_^


I've generally looked at WEP as the same protection as an Ethernet cable, only they don't need to physically get into the stream of things to sniff packets off the network.


As good as standing around in Siberia with your shorts down lol.


I use the strongest LCD available for my miniature WLAN, because my internet connection sucks to bad to share and I don't want it easy for anyone to ease drop on credentials. Let them capture enough packets to crack my security, then spend enough time to overcome the encryption on any data I don't want public knowledge when it goes across the 'net. Then figure out how to get into the systems, before I eventually change things around.

[jggimi]

Yes, it's the same Bruce, who's Blowfish cipher was the genesis for Puffy, the OpenBSD mascot.

[ocicat]

Yes, it's the same Bruce, who's Blowfish cipher was the genesis for Puffy, the OpenBSD mascot.
I guess that explains why "Brucey Goosey" didn't make it past the first round of deliberations...

;)

[lvlamb]

Case by case question.
Depends if you live in a suburb or in a city.
I agree with the politeness argument,
taking it further,
"WAPs everywhere" would construct a meshed network with Internet access for everyone.

When a guest comes to my home, I don't care him to use heat, power, water, the phone.
As long as he does not take the habit of comimg everyday at xx hours to start making his international calls.
I had such three guests using my WAP in the first ten days of the month, until when my bandwith was exhausted.

I am polite with people who are polite with me. Politeness does not includes lending my wallet to everyone. :)

[BSDfan666]

Public Wi-Fi is a neat concept on paper, but impractical in reality.

People aren't very friendly, they'll abuse it for sure.. ;)

Setting up a Wi-Fi with AuthPF+SSH is fun though, I'd redirect all non-authenticated traffic to a dummy server that displays a bogus error page. :)

[jggimi]

For any attemped access, mine uses a virtual host with a very polite static page, suggesting wardrivers have aeronautical intercourse with rotational pastry. Not in so many words, of course. :)

[Carpetsmoker]

Am I the only one who doesn't have any WiFi?
The advantages of WiFi always seemed pretty minor to me, sure, you have internet in the while house (And around it) but just how useful is that?
Even laptops are generally used at the same spot every time...

Anyway,
My brother lives in a 3x4 meter (if not smaller) apartment, it's in a house with 6(?) other students ... You know how these things work.
He doesn't have a phone connection (Which is needed for internet), and the housboss does not seem to be very service-oriented and just sort of shrugs his shoulders when asked about this.

So, he uses some (unprotected) wireless network, as does at least one other student, although (depending on the speed of the connection and the presence of a data limit) the owner of this connection may never notice he has "leechers", I would consider this to be abuse .... And it makes you wonder how often this is happening?

But in spite of this, I agree with Bruce, if I would have a wireless network, it would be open, I never lock my front door either, I would rather have everything stolen once every 20 years orso then live in constant fear of everything being stolen.

[BSDfan666]

All the computers in my house are wired, I just set one up for kicks.. got a couple free PCI ral(4) cards. :)

[Nirbo]

I also don't use any Wireless. Every few months my parents suggest I set up a wireless network as the one I did for them was a thing of absolute beauty and I do not know how it is still working.

I just foam at the mouth and spin my head while ranting about my infinite love of wired networks.

Of course, the only machines that might benefit from wireless are my sister's laptop, and my Wii. Could be worth it if I find myself extremely bored one day.

But until then, my internet is coming to me through a series of tubes, just as it was meant to be.

[TerryP]

For me, wireless is only used because if I tried staple gunning an eithernet cable across the ceiling and walls, my mother and the land lord would kill me :-P


Within my laptops range, I'm probably the only encrypted WLAN in the area. Some data that goes through my connection, I'm responsible for it's security so -- encrypted wifi + protocol with encryption + local data is stored encrypted on the file system where convenient.


I would never consider putting a wireless network anywhere (connectively speaking) near a secured location, unless it is as segregated from the wired network as much as technically possible with a scram switch to cut the connection just for paranoias sake.


WiFi has it's perks but I dislike that it opens a wider range of entry points over a purely wired setup, because you can't really guard radio waves very well lol.


In the famous words, "Fix one thing, break another"


Hmm, I wonder if anyone has thought of putting radio wave absorbent or interfering materials into a buildings insulation, in order to reduce the range of the AP outside it's required AOO.


Case by case question.
Depends if you live in a suburb or in a city. ...

I am polite with people who are polite with me. Politeness does not includes lending my wallet to everyone. :)

very well put lvlamb ;-)



If someone wants to use my network, they can ask first or pay the toll ;-)

[BSDfan666]

Hmm, I wonder if anyone has thought of putting radio wave absorbent or interfering materials into a buildings insulation, in order to reduce the range of the AP outside it's required AOO.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/03/23/rf_proof_paint/
http://techdirt.com/articles/20040618/1344246.shtml

Found a couple articles about it, saves having to rebuild your house with wifi-unfriendly material. ;)

[TerryP]

Ahh so conventional RAM does do the trick after all xD

[jggimi]

Unfortunately, I don't think any of these will come with a barista:

http://freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080625/BUSINESS01/80625059

[drhowarddrfine]

I have two stories and no ethernet cabling. I've looked into every nook and cranny to run a wire to the 2nd story, without it showing, and it's just too much work. So wifi solved it. I do like to venture from room to room as I work'n'surf. Just last week, my wife decided she didn't want an office anymore so she's moved back to one of the upstairs bedrooms. Wifi for her.

I don't know how I feel about leaving my wifi open. I do have the router set up to only accept traffic from the MAC addresses of the four computers that use it.

[BSDKaffee]

I have always left my WiFi connection open (I've never noticed anyone using it though -- I live in a quite suburban neighborhood). I'm kinda glad my neighbor leaves theirs open too because my router just blew up and by the time my ISP comes to replace it, I will be gone for another week.

[Carpetsmoker]

mweh, soon E.U. citizens may wish to rethink leaving their wifi open:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7492907.stm

So, if you're suspected of spreading copyrighted material you're just banned from the internet, this all happens without the bothersome interference of a court of law of course.

Sjeez, 90% of the people under 30 are violating copyright on a weekly basis (at least), maybe (just maybe) it's the copyright law that needs updating ... Because this is nothing more terrorizing their citizens into doing whatever they want, what was it again? "we the people are sovereign..." .... I don't think many politicians were present during those history lessons....

[roddierod]

I've been thinking...which is sometimes dangerous...why isn't there a Open Source Internet...or if there already is where do I sign up?

Instead of industry, government agencies or colleges controling everything small groups of people creating network that link together that way something like banning Firefox or people on "suspicion" couldn't happen. I'm not sure how difficult it would be to get a backbone going...but it has to be possible.

[BSDfan666]

There used to be free dial-up providers, usually the system doubled as a BBS or shared Unix system of some sort.

Obviously these smaller ones had a limited amount of concurrent connections, sometimes only 1 at a time.. Typically that required a level of trust that the users wouldn't horde it 24/7.

Today, it's not so easy.. bandwidth costs money, and people demand faster connectivity..

Now, "Open Internet" could be a private network.. separated from the Internet, meaning a separate root server infrastructure and re purposing IP ranges.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_DNS_root

You could setup a such a thing in your area, assuming you have interested friends willing to join the cause.. could use ad-hoc wireless or something. (Or if you're a hammy, packet radio?).

[roddierod]

I've heard that HAM is falling out of favor. Their is much interest with younger groups. I just started listening to short wave a few years ago and have a little interest in HAM from that.

I going to look into that Alt-DNS thanks. I'd love to try a private network unforunately most people around me most technical skill is memorizing the Steeler's playbook....

[Jmdbh]

I used to secure my WLAN using certificate authenticated IPSec on my othwise public access point. But when WPA(2) came out I found it was easier to setup than IPSEC and also I don't have to renew my certificates.

Furthermore here in Germany you are responsible to some extend if someone commits a crime using your open wireless.

[tuck]

Read this (http://www.heise.de/newsticker/Gericht-Keine-Haftung-fuer-offenes-WLAN--/meldung/110632) (if you understand German...).
The first sentence of this article translated through translate.google.com:
"The dispute over the legal consequences of an open wireless continues. The Higher Regional Court (OLG) in Frankfurt continued a recent decision, the liability of the wireless operator for the improper use of his connection by unknown third parties, and clearly highlighted the different judgement of the lower court."

Total court confusion .

google has a problem to translate the first part of the whole (http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.heise.de%2Fnewsticker %2FGericht-Keine-Haftung-fuer-offenes-WLAN--%2Fmeldung%2F110632&hl=en&ie=UTF8&sl=de&tl=en) text but it's worth to read it and it's better than the translation through yahoo.

[Jmdbh]

Read this (if you understand German...).
I saw this right after I had written my message. :confused:

A few months ago I did a little war driving around my neighbourhood and from the 270 WLANs about 10% were not encrypted (WEP counted as encrypted). So I get a good change to find a free WiFi.

[Oko]

When you see FBI agents (if you live in U. S.) knocking on your door because you were downloading howto make anthrax or child pornography you will understand that
having an open WiFi is not such a great idea. Actually for most people not familiar with
VPN and similar things the smartest thing is to stay away from WiFi all together.

[dk_netsvil]

Bruce Schneier wrote this (http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2008/01/my_open_wireles.html) article about his own wireless reservations.

When I think about "open networks" I don't really think wireless is the solution - too anonymous and too easily subverted. My own paranoia tells me to stay away from wireless although I do maintain an open access point in my neighborhood which is mostly populated by retirees and the occasional college student.

I think the closest thing I can think of that sounds, IMO, like an "open network" or "open internet" is George Lucas' Third Internet.